Thread: Lapdancing clubs putting on burlesque to get round licensing laws - new trend?

I found this article very interesting:

Nottingham bar Snug has been refused a licence for lap dancers

From the looks of it, a lapdancing club in Nottingham have been claiming about putting
on a (and I quote ) "very highbrow burlesque event" in order to persuade local councillors to grant them a license.

I wonder if this could be the start of a new trend, using burlesque to 'legitimise' such clubs....especially when the new Crime and Policing Bill eventually comes in (this was an application to start up a club, not anything to do with changing an existing club's category).

It seems such a shame the Licensing committee turned the application for the club down, especially with the planned stars they were planning to bring in to perform: "Club directors told the authority's special licensing panel that they had been looking to bring in international burlesque acts, like Dita Von Teese".......I'm saying NOTHING about the likelihood that Dita would have accepted the invitation to perform in a lapdancing club in Nottingham......whistles innocently......

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I read Melon Farmers every day and I constantly see articles about Lapdancing clubs being refused licences.

With the new legislation due to go through Lords in November 2009 there is a risk that the law will be changed to include Burlesque & Cabaret events if Lapdancing Clubs start putting on Burlesque shows - this would effectively kill every non-lapdancing based Burlesque club in the UK except for maybe Club Noir (who have audience memebrs in their thousands so have the money to pay the licence if it becomes law).

Your thoughts please?

I don't believe that to be true at all Gehenna. If you see the other thread on SEELs and the proposed Crime and Policing Bill, I honestly don't think the legislation will affect burlesque events in the slightest - mainly because most, if not all (?) aren't weekly, nor do they include what the bill constitutes as 'nudity'

I notice the bill hasn't gone back to the House of Commons yet after been scrutinised by the Committee: Bills and Legislation - Policing and Crime Bill

Originally Posted by tempest devyne

I don't believe that to be true at all Gehenna. If you see the other thread on SEELs and the proposed Crime and Policing Bill, I honestly don't think the legislation will affect burlesque events in the slightest - mainly because most, if not all (?) aren't weekly, nor do they include what the bill constitutes as 'nudity'

I notice the bill hasn't gone back to the House of Commons yet after been scrutinised by the Committee: Bills and Legislation - Policing and Crime Bill

I'm not as optomistic as yourself Tempest - if Lapdancing Clubs becoming Burlesque Clubs becomes the norm then I firmly believe that the Nanny Labour Party Government will just extend the legislation to close that loophole. The current government are an extention of the Daily Mail kneejerk reaction to anything a little bit different. Perhaps the best thing we can do is support the Lapdancing industry to get this legislation shot down, then we can get on with doing what we enjoy best.

I wrote to my local MP about the SEEL - in typical Labour fashion he ignored my request for clarification via the 'I will respond as soon as I am able' response but he did add my name to his mailing list so that I get junk mail from the Labour party about issues I have no interest in - cheers Liam Byrne MP.

When Angel and I started our show we chose not to use a Lapdancing venue because we feared it would attract less of the people we wanted, women and Burlesque fans. The irony is that should this legislation come into force and extend to cover events like ours we do have the connections to move the show into a Lapdancing bar - the only issue would be would we want to?

Originally Posted by tempest devyne

I don't believe that to be true at all Gehenna. If you see the other thread on SEELs and the proposed Crime and Policing Bill, I honestly don't think the legislation will affect burlesque events in the slightest - mainly because most, if not all (?) aren't weekly, nor do they include what the bill constitutes as 'nudity'

I think the problem is that people who support this bill do not know or care about the difference between lap dancing and Burlesque events and do tend to lump them both together in the "we don't like this kind of thing" category as the whole LBF kerfuffle is showing.

The additional danger here is that if lap dancing clubs try to use Burlesque as a way of getting around the sex encounter establishment licenses legislation (should it come in) the government will respond by simply lumping the two together and deciding that venues need a sex encounter establishment license for burlesque shows, which really would kill the scene stone dead in England (this legislation is a reserved issue for now AFAIK, however I wouldn't be at all surprised if the government up here introduced a Scottish version of it - they have been displaying a disturbingly puritanical streak on social matters of late).

I can see both points of view. While the bill as it currently stands works in favour of Burlesque as opposed Lapdancing clubs, the 'use' of burlesque by lapdancing clubs in this way may prompt an amendment. However once a bill is in place (and this one is in it's late stages) it is not an easy or speedy process to get it amended. Unless it's to do with war or terrorism, the wheels turn very slowly.

The bill currently has a good, complete and easily understandible definition of 'nudity', and the circumstances under which it can be displayed. If they start buggering about with it and adding ifs, buts, and exceptions then they'll start opening a legislative can of worms that could really hit the performing arts as a whole, for example. Altering this bill would be a retrograde step about which they would have to think long and hard. It could happen indeed, but It's not a quick process, and I don't think they'll do it readily. I think they'll be reluctant to 'break' one of the few good definitions on the statute book.

Hwever, back to this club.

While in this instance they may by trying to add a touch of class to the establishment doesn't escape from that fact that they are, fundamentally, a lapdancing club. And therefore will need a relevant licence. In this instance they were trying to hold a highbrow event to pursuade the licensing committee to grand them the license they needed, but they fundamental business would remain the same. While they were trying to butter-up the committee, you can't really get around the rules and regs by using burlesque. They're not that daft. I think it was a use to get around the committee, rather than get around the law.

In a similar vein, you can't use burlesque to 'get-around' the new SEEL legislation either. If the underlying business is that of nudity, then you must have a SEEL licence. The occasional Burlesque show won't change that.

The only way you can get around the need for a SEEL licence is by having no nudity. But then it wouldn't be a lapdancing club

Originally Posted by tempest devyne

I'm saying NOTHING about the likelihood that Dita would have accepted the invitation to perform in a lapdancing club in Nottingham......whistles innocently......

Lap dancing club? Hell yeah, why not, that's where she started off, aint it?

Nottingham? let me think about that one for a second .... ummmmmmm no

And whilst I'm answering here, can I please make an entreaty for people not to use the term 'Daily Mail readers' as some sort of shorthand for overly prudish or close minded people? My parents read the Daily Mail and they're my biggest supporters ...

Originally Posted by Fleur du Mal

And whilst I'm answering here, can I please make an entreaty for people not to use the term 'Daily Mail readers' as some sort of shorthand for overly prudish or close minded people? My parents read the Daily Mail and they're my biggest supporters ...

My folks are Daily Mail readers too and very supportive of my sister's burlesque club and my SM work so I second this!

That said, I have argued on many occassions with my dad on the evils of that paper!!

Whilst I would agree that not all Daily Mail readers are a bunch of puritanical haters of anything more revealing than a bare ankle the fact remains that the Daily Mail itself is VERY puritanical. As a counterpoint I used to read The Sun (well look at the pictures) and I'm not an illeterate racist ratboy who's too scared to buy a copy The Daily Sport.

These days I just read the Metro - it's free so I'm not paying for someone else to spout their political belief.

are you not a little impressed that the proprietors of such a tasteless place would actually know what burlesque is? i am. lol